and a more intuitive workflow, a lot less of this book would really be necessary and GIMP might actually find some greater acceptance.
As goofy as the Adobe GUI is, Photoshop is the poop, pure and simple, and all other image appas are compared to it. Painter, for example is slower and clumsier, but it has awesome brushes, MS Paint is its own hobbled ugliness but has its uses, GIMP is ugly and retarded, but it's free and it works, etc. The day Adobe puts CS on Linux is the day GIMP gets a stake driven through its heart. Ad that day can't come too soon, IMHO. I'd love to run CS on a Linux box and be done with Mac AND Windows and run on generic hardware.
I've been advocating for YEARS for Adobe to sell Linux boxen with CS locked on and pre-installed. They could give the computer away for practically free. BUY SOFTWARE - FREE COMPUTER!
I would also suggest that Adobe needs to jump on this now, as Linux is gaining greater acceptance, GIMP will also, and they don't want GIMP to rule that platform - first in and all that.
I'll definitely buy this book. I dislike GIMP intensely, but knowing it better might take an edge off.
I think I just had an orgasm. That would be the greatest system seller since Steve Jobs realized he could charge 50% more for a computer if he painted it orange and rounded some corners on the case.
I agree - but of course stating the obvious and coming up with a great idea gets modded flamebait... Mustn't ruffle the feathers of the true believers...
Actually, that *is* constructive criticism. Gimp's awful GUI and generally "ugly" look are two of the big things holding it back from mainstream appeal. Mainstream users expect their programs to have a basic "professional" appearance. Too many OSS programmers neglect to even consider this, to the detriment of what may actually be a decent underlying program.
I think "ugly" may be a fair, if underspecified complaint.
"Retarded" is on the other side of unspecific.
As a matter of fact, disagreement with the GUI is a central criticism, so hand-wavy complaint here is particularly counterproductive and annoying. "Awful" doesn't advance the dialog, either.
Note that "it's uncomfortably different from what I'm familiar with" is a valid complaint.
For as long as people have been complaining about the gimp UI, pro-gimpers have been saying "that's how linux UIs work, it's better, get over it and get a virtual desktop to manage the windows"
They can't for the life of them figure out why prospective users aren't eating that up, as opposed to (quite reasonably imo) wanting a UI consistent with the majority of other ones the users work with.
For the record I do use Gimp, but I quite regularly feel as if I'm fighting with the inte
For as long as people have been complaining about the gimp UI, pro-gimpers have been saying "that's how linux UIs work, it's better, get over it and get a virtual desktop to manage the windows"
What they really mean is "that's how our Gtk toolkit in all its archaic glory works. We designed it specifically for the Gimp and it has never been more than a kludge, and we have no intention to improve on that because GNU and Gnome use it, so it must rock."
For the record I do use Gimp, but I quite regularly feel as if I'm fighting with the interface to get something done, or having to make lots of extra clicks to deal with window focus changes.
If you like GIMP but not it's GUI you can try Gimpshop [gimpshop.com] which has a more Photoshop like gui.
I've been advocating for YEARS for Adobe to sell Linux boxen with CS locked on and pre-installed.
Adobe has a long history of hatred for Free software going way, way back to ghostscript. The hatred is born from the fact that they can't IP litigate Free software to a certain death like they have most graphics software innovators.
i agree, the reason i don't use GIMP is not a lack of features, it's the cumbersome UI. technically, imagemagick has a ton of these features also. i feel like i spend 70% of my time with GIMP just managing windows, navigating dialogs, etc, compared to about 30% with CS. for simple image tasks like futzing with brightness or mocking up a UI for work, my app of choice is PaintShop Pro 7. it launches instantly and is very lightweight yet has layers, a UI that does the job and gets out of the way, etc. But Core
for simple image tasks like futzing with brightness or mocking up a UI for work, my app of choice is PaintShop Pro 7. it launches instantly and is very lightweight yet has layers, a UI that does the job and gets out of the way, etc.
Cathector here speaks the truth.
I use version 6 myself; best simple graphics program ever. No, if you're doing professional- or art-quality stuff, it might not be suitable, but it's good for the lightweight everyday stuff. A few nice advanced features, but enough simplicity for basic things too. Think of the simplicity of MSPaint with layers and some image manipulation stuff as well.
The best part? Drawing a circle is as easy as clicking the circle tool and the color you want. None of this "select an ar
In OS X, you will also need X11 or XDarwin in order to launch and run Gimpshop.
I'm not going to dump out to X11 to run something that, while close, is not BETTER than Photoshop. That exceeds my hassle factor. I should click it and it should open, period. Running X11 or XDarwin is NOT why I run OS X. I have better things to do with my time.
You know, X11 Mac apps do that. You click on the Gimp.app (for example) icon in the dock (or in/Applications), and it starts. If X11 isn't running yet, it automatically launches. And you don't have to "dump out" to anything, either -- native app windows and X app windows are on the same desktop.
GIMP is ugly and retarded, but it's free and it works
You may find it unintuitive, but I think that's more of a symptom of expecting GIMP to function like Photoshop (or possibly a misunderstanding of the more complex functions). It's a different app; it's going to present a different solution for solving the same problem.
I've been using GIMP for years on and off and much more so in the last 2 years. The menus and dialogs have decent organization, with the one exception in 2.6.x. They moved the dialogs under
I use GIMP on an Eee. I'd rather not have the toolbox always visible. However, if you want that, you have options. Virtual desktops, or making the dialog box 'always on top'...it's a workable situation. It's also a problem for the window manager, not the application. It is a design feature that you can set up the program to display the toolbox or not, and it is far more sensible to use a WM to determine whether a window is showing than any other solution.
Also, since when does Photoshop always have a visible
My wife and I both use gimp. When I use it on her system I find it very clumsy because she uses click to focus, while I use focus follows mouse.
It could be that the people who like the gimp UI work like me and don't experience the focus problems you get if you have to click in a window before using a key.
There is nothing at all intuitive about image manipulation. Nothing. Image manipulation isn't as easy as crayons or fingerpainting, and that's about the most image manipulation most folks have done before they take an interest. Speaking as a hobbyist, I find the options of both PS *and* GIMP bewildering.
So we have to learn.
To learn the concepts involves training on an application. Since I'm starting from zero knowledge, it's an uphill battle on either PS or GIMP. I chose to train on the GIMP because it
If GIMP had a decent GUI and a more intuitive workflow, a lot less of this book would really be necessary and GIMP might actually find some greater acceptance.
I disagree, it's different than Photoshop but gets the job done. But why not let people make their own minds up. Hands-on experience is worth any amount of reviews..
'the GNU Image Manipulation Program [gimp.org]. It is a freely distributed piece of software for such tasks as photo retouching, image composition and image authoring. It works on many operating systems, in many languages'
Here's a modification that replicates the look of Photoshop - GIMPshop [gimpshop.com]
Adobe is just plain stupid by not porting to linux.
We have lots of clients stuck on CS2 and majority of their IT expenses are going to windows-related stuff like volume licensing and whatnot. They'd migrate to linux and CS4 right now if it would be possible.
he day Adobe puts CS on Linux is the day GIMP gets a stake driven through its heart. Ad that day can't come too soon, IMHO. I'd love to run CS on a Linux box and be done with Mac AND Windows and run on generic hardware.
Thanks to a how-to posted yesterday, here's a guide to Installing Photoshop on Ubuntu Linux [limpag.com]. However it's for PS 7. Though they can be made to run there are issues with CS.
I'll definitely buy this book. I dislike GIMP intensely, but knowing it better might take an edge off.
I won't buy this
Intel CPUs are not defective, they just act that way.
-- Henry Spencer
If GIMP had a decent GUI... (Score:3, Insightful)
As goofy as the Adobe GUI is, Photoshop is the poop, pure and simple, and all other image appas are compared to it. Painter, for example is slower and clumsier, but it has awesome brushes, MS Paint is its own hobbled ugliness but has its uses, GIMP is ugly and retarded, but it's free and it works, etc. The day Adobe puts CS on Linux is the day GIMP gets a stake driven through its heart. Ad that day can't come too soon, IMHO. I'd love to run CS on a Linux box and be done with Mac AND Windows and run on generic hardware.
I've been advocating for YEARS for Adobe to sell Linux boxen with CS locked on and pre-installed. They could give the computer away for practically free. BUY SOFTWARE - FREE COMPUTER!
I would also suggest that Adobe needs to jump on this now, as Linux is gaining greater acceptance, GIMP will also, and they don't want GIMP to rule that platform - first in and all that.
I'll definitely buy this book. I dislike GIMP intensely, but knowing it better might take an edge off.
RS RS
Re: (Score:2)
Linux boxen with CS locked on and pre-installed.
I think I just had an orgasm. That would be the greatest system seller since Steve Jobs realized he could charge 50% more for a computer if he painted it orange and rounded some corners on the case.
Re: (Score:1)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
Re: (Score:2)
I think "ugly" may be a fair, if underspecified complaint.
"Retarded" is on the other side of unspecific.
As a matter of fact, disagreement with the GUI is a central criticism, so hand-wavy complaint here is particularly counterproductive and annoying. "Awful" doesn't advance the dialog, either.
Note that "it's uncomfortably different from what I'm familiar with" is a valid complaint.
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Of course it strikes a nerve.
For as long as people have been complaining about the gimp UI, pro-gimpers have been saying "that's how linux UIs work, it's better, get over it and get a virtual desktop to manage the windows"
They can't for the life of them figure out why prospective users aren't eating that up, as opposed to (quite reasonably imo) wanting a UI consistent with the majority of other ones the users work with.
For the record I do use Gimp, but I quite regularly feel as if I'm fighting with the inte
Re: (Score:1)
For as long as people have been complaining about the gimp UI, pro-gimpers have been saying "that's how linux UIs work, it's better, get over it and get a virtual desktop to manage the windows"
What they really mean is "that's how our Gtk toolkit in all its archaic glory works. We designed it specifically for the Gimp and it has never been more than a kludge, and we have no intention to improve on that because GNU and Gnome use it, so it must rock."
Re: (Score:2)
For the record I do use Gimp, but I quite regularly feel as if I'm fighting with the interface to get something done, or having to make lots of extra clicks to deal with window focus changes.
If you like GIMP but not it's GUI you can try Gimpshop [gimpshop.com] which has a more Photoshop like gui.
Falcon
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I've been advocating for YEARS for Adobe to sell Linux boxen with CS locked on and pre-installed.
Adobe has a long history of hatred for Free software going way, way back to ghostscript. The hatred is born from the fact that they can't IP litigate Free software to a certain death like they have most graphics software innovators.
Re: (Score:2)
i agree, the reason i don't use GIMP is not a lack of features, it's the cumbersome UI. technically, imagemagick has a ton of these features also. i feel like i spend 70% of my time with GIMP just managing windows, navigating dialogs, etc, compared to about 30% with CS. for simple image tasks like futzing with brightness or mocking up a UI for work, my app of choice is PaintShop Pro 7. it launches instantly and is very lightweight yet has layers, a UI that does the job and gets out of the way, etc. But Core
Re: (Score:1)
for simple image tasks like futzing with brightness or mocking up a UI for work, my app of choice is PaintShop Pro 7. it launches instantly and is very lightweight yet has layers, a UI that does the job and gets out of the way, etc.
Cathector here speaks the truth.
I use version 6 myself; best simple graphics program ever. No, if you're doing professional- or art-quality stuff, it might not be suitable, but it's good for the lightweight everyday stuff. A few nice advanced features, but enough simplicity for basic things too. Think of the simplicity of MSPaint with layers and some image manipulation stuff as well.
The best part? Drawing a circle is as easy as clicking the circle tool and the color you want. None of this "select an ar
Re: (Score:2)
In OS X, you will also need X11 or XDarwin in order to launch and run Gimpshop.
I'm not going to dump out to X11 to run something that, while close, is not BETTER than Photoshop. That exceeds my hassle factor. I should click it and it should open, period. Running X11 or XDarwin is NOT why I run OS X. I have better things to do with my time.
RS
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
Re: (Score:2)
You know, X11 Mac apps do that. You click on the Gimp.app (for example) icon in the dock (or in /Applications), and it starts. If X11 isn't running yet, it automatically launches. And you don't have to "dump out" to anything, either -- native app windows and X app windows are on the same desktop.
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
You may find it unintuitive, but I think that's more of a symptom of expecting GIMP to function like Photoshop (or possibly a misunderstanding of the more complex functions). It's a different app; it's going to present a different solution for solving the same problem.
I've been using GIMP for years on and off and much more so in the last 2 years. The menus and dialogs have decent organization, with the one exception in 2.6.x. They moved the dialogs under
Re: (Score:2)
You may find it unintuitive, but I think that's more of a symptom of expecting GIMP to function like Photoshop
If by "function like Photoshop" you mean "always have a visible toolbox," then I'm right there with ya.
Re: (Score:2)
I use GIMP on an Eee. I'd rather not have the toolbox always visible. However, if you want that, you have options. Virtual desktops, or making the dialog box 'always on top'...it's a workable situation. It's also a problem for the window manager, not the application. It is a design feature that you can set up the program to display the toolbox or not, and it is far more sensible to use a WM to determine whether a window is showing than any other solution.
Also, since when does Photoshop always have a visible
Re: (Score:2)
with the new default window hints in 2.6 you can't get rid of it unless you press tab
Well, then they must have inexplicably removed it from my 2.6.2 copy.
Re: (Score:2)
It could be that the people who like the gimp UI work like me and don't experience the focus problems you get if you have to click in a window before using a key.
Re: (Score:2)
There is nothing at all intuitive about image manipulation. Nothing. Image manipulation isn't as easy as crayons or fingerpainting, and that's about the most image manipulation most folks have done before they take an interest. Speaking as a hobbyist, I find the options of both PS *and* GIMP bewildering.
So we have to learn.
To learn the concepts involves training on an application. Since I'm starting from zero knowledge, it's an uphill battle on either PS or GIMP. I chose to train on the GIMP because it
Re: (Score:1)
If GIMP had a decent GUI and a more intuitive workflow, a lot less of this book would really be necessary and GIMP might actually find some greater acceptance.
I disagree, it's different than Photoshop but gets the job done. But why not let people make their own minds up. Hands-on experience is worth any amount of reviews ..
'the GNU Image Manipulation Program [gimp.org]. It is a freely distributed piece of software for such tasks as photo retouching, image composition and image authoring. It works on many operating systems, in many languages'
Here's a modification that replicates the look of Photoshop - GIMPshop [gimpshop.com]
Re: (Score:1, Interesting)
Adobe is just plain stupid by not porting to linux.
We have lots of clients stuck on CS2 and majority of their IT expenses are going to windows-related stuff like volume licensing and whatnot. They'd migrate to linux and CS4 right now if it would be possible.
Photoshop on Linux (Score:2)
he day Adobe puts CS on Linux is the day GIMP gets a stake driven through its heart. Ad that day can't come too soon, IMHO. I'd love to run CS on a Linux box and be done with Mac AND Windows and run on generic hardware.
Thanks to a how-to posted yesterday, here's a guide to Installing Photoshop on Ubuntu Linux [limpag.com]. However it's for PS 7. Though they can be made to run there are issues with CS.
I'll definitely buy this book. I dislike GIMP intensely, but knowing it better might take an edge off.
I won't buy this