It's 640 light years away (give or take).
Would the neutrinos affect us at all? Is this another doomsday scenario?
I would imagine that it'd be hellishly bright in the night sky.
What does science say about it? I'm rusty on my astronomy, but it'd be awesome to see.
if there was a gammaray burst pooted in out general direction it surely would be doomsday, there have been mass extinctions in the distant past and it could happen again. have a nice day:D
I've heard it's pointed away from us...or so they say.
Can you imagine that though? Getting a sunburn at night, the night sky being nearly as bright as day?
I've heard it's pointed away from us...or so they say. Can you imagine that though? Getting a sunburn at night, the night sky being nearly as bright as day?
We'll just tell your friends you fell asleep under the sunlamp.
Would the neutrinos affect us at all? Is this another doomsday scenario?
Please, please tell me this was a joke. Please tell me you actually understood what a neutrino is, and were intentionally posting something absurd.
In the off-chance you were serious, a neutrino doesn't interact with matter enough to do any damage. This is not a matter of any uncertainty. A single neutrino would have a chance of passing through several light years of solid lead without interacting with a single atom. Neutrinos are sleeting through your body right now from the centre of the sun; they pass through the suns outer layers unimpeded, and if the sun isn't overhead wherever you are right now, then they've also passed through the innards of the earth.
Neutrinos can't affect us. Or the earth, or much of anything, really.
Like I said, I've been a bit rusty on astronomy (add physics to that, too) for a while now.
I was actually referring to a book (more then likely outdated, it was from the 80s) that referred to a scenario where a supergiant star the distance of Alpha Centuari from us going supernova.
A supergiant going nova that close could be bad. Neutrinos wouldn't be the problem however - more likely it would be x-rays or gamma rays that would do Bad Things(TM) to the planet.
As mentioned elsewhere, there is some question as to whether observed long duration gamma ray bursts are the product of dying stars collapsing into a black hole. If that theory is correct, the final moments of a supergiant's demise produce two "jets" of gamma rays going in polar opposite directs - the "burst" is actually
The neutrinos from a core collapse supernova would be lethal to humans at the distance of Jupiter. Any given neutrino has very little chance of hitting interacting with normal density matter it passes through, but there are a LOT of neutrinos: about 0.05 solar masses of them.
Furthermore, they are the first things that escape from the core (apart from gravitational waves) since they move at near-lightspeed and have very little chance of interacting with the envelope of the star. The big flashy special effects are driven by the shockwave from the core reaching the surface, and that takes hours. So if you were at the distance of Jupiter, you would have time to die from neutrino effects before the blast hit you.
Admittedly, Betelgeuse is somewhat further away than Jupiter, and the only neutrino effects are likely to be a lot of very excited astrophysicists. But both Jupiter and Betelgeuse are much closer than 99.9999999999999999999% of the Universe, and much further away than everyone you've ever met, so the distance scales aren't that different.
The neutrinos from a core collapse supernova would be lethal to humans at the distance of Jupiter
I'm not going to put an obnoxious citation needed tag here, but damned if I wasn't tempted. That's the first I've ever heard of neutrinos being deadly to anything at all. I'm understandably sceptical.
I don't suppose you remember the source for that? I'd be curious to see the details.
That being said, the distance between the sun and Jupiter is on the order of tens of light minutes, whereas here to Betelgeuse is hundreds of light years. They may both be, as you say, close to us in astronomical terms, but
That's the first I've ever heard of neutrinos being deadly to anything at all. I'm understandably sceptical.
The neutrino emissions from a supernova would be lethal to humans out to a light year or so. Really. Cross-section is ~10e-40 cm^2, average energy is 1 MeV-ish. You work it out.
The neutrino emissions from a supernova would be lethal to humans out to a light year or so. Really. Cross-section is ~10e-40 cm^2, average energy is 1 MeV-ish. You work it out.
Then it's a good thing the only star less than a light year or so away from us won't go supernova...
And how these neutrinos are supposed have an ionizing effect, exactly?
Charged current interaction, which is one aspect of the weak nuclear force. If you think about it, electrons must feel the week force, otherwise beta decay wouldn't happen.
Most neutrino detectors use see solar neutrinos this way: Cherenkov light from electrons kicked out by the charged current interaction. (The Sudbury Neutrino Observatory, in contrast, was also sensitive to the neutral current interaction, which is what made it possible to determine that neutrinos have mass.)
I was going to reply with "work it out", but I see someone beat me to it. He even provided the necessary numbers, available on wikipedia.
Of course, if you're far enough away to survive all the other particles, the neutrinos aren't going to bother you, but you're right, it's interesting to know that neutrinos could kill you. It gives you something of sense of the scale of a supernova. It's even more satisfying to be able to work it out.
It gives you something of sense of the scale of a supernova.
Point taken. I suppose I didn't consider the sheer quantity of statistically insignificant interactions.
That being said, I'd still like to see something a little more substantive on the subject than back of the envelope calculations (and that includes my own). It isn't that I doubt the math for the values given so much as I doubt the question of neutrino lethality is simple enough to answer that easily.
I'm aware of neutrino induced fission as a means of interaction, and the prospect of mass fissioning of
You'd get radiation poisoning and die. If you were far enough away your hair would fall out and your intestines would start to disintegrate, then you'd die. If you were closer you'd get cooked like someone at Hiroshima. Even closer and you'd be vaporized. Or atomized, really.
Once you make up for the difference in interaction rates, neutrino radiation would have much the same effect on a person as x-rays or gamma rays.
Admittedly, Betelgeuse is somewhat further away than Jupiter
And if it weren't, we'd be in serious trouble anyway, as it's radius is around 1,000 solar radii == about 47AU == about 4 times the maximum distance between Earth and Jupiter.
And the really sad thing is even if you've survived everything up to the last bang, while neutrinos travel close to the speed of light the X-rays and gamma rays would still reach you and kill you first so the neutrinos never get a chance. Poor neutrinos even when they're deadly they still dont get a chance to kill
Admittedly, Betelgeuse is somewhat further away than Jupiter, and the only neutrino effects are likely to be a lot of very excited astrophysicists.
So... what is the excitation energy of an astrophysicist and how do they manage to couple so strongly with neutrinos?
I suppose the leading theory might be to have them somehow emanate a variant Weak Force, which would make them be not really of this universe. Going by the few I've met - who were tending to be at least not of this world - the evidence seems to be stacking up...
The neutrinos may cause an increase in cancer rates...
The neutrinos [wikipedia.org] will do no such thing.
Lets be thankful that the ozone layer would get a well needed boost, considering what we have done to it. And the auroras would be fantastic, once particles start to arrive.
It's 640 light years away (give or take).
Would the neutrinos affect us at all? Is this another doomsday scenario?
I would imagine that it'd be hellishly bright in the night sky.
What does science say about it? I'm rusty on my astronomy, but it'd be awesome to see.
meh - 640 light years ought to be enough for anyone
New doomsday scenario? (Score:5, Interesting)
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Re: (Score:1)
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I've heard it's pointed away from us...or so they say. Can you imagine that though? Getting a sunburn at night, the night sky being nearly as bright as day?
We'll just tell your friends you fell asleep under the sunlamp.
Re:New doomsday scenario? (Score:5, Informative)
Would the neutrinos affect us at all? Is this another doomsday scenario?
Please, please tell me this was a joke. Please tell me you actually understood what a neutrino is, and were intentionally posting something absurd.
In the off-chance you were serious, a neutrino doesn't interact with matter enough to do any damage. This is not a matter of any uncertainty. A single neutrino would have a chance of passing through several light years of solid lead without interacting with a single atom. Neutrinos are sleeting through your body right now from the centre of the sun; they pass through the suns outer layers unimpeded, and if the sun isn't overhead wherever you are right now, then they've also passed through the innards of the earth.
Neutrinos can't affect us. Or the earth, or much of anything, really.
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Ah, ok.
A supergiant going nova that close could be bad. Neutrinos wouldn't be the problem however - more likely it would be x-rays or gamma rays that would do Bad Things(TM) to the planet.
As mentioned elsewhere, there is some question as to whether observed long duration gamma ray bursts are the product of dying stars collapsing into a black hole. If that theory is correct, the final moments of a supergiant's demise produce two "jets" of gamma rays going in polar opposite directs - the "burst" is actually
Re:New doomsday scenario? (Score:5, Informative)
The neutrinos from a core collapse supernova would be lethal to humans at the distance of Jupiter. Any given neutrino has very little chance of hitting interacting with normal density matter it passes through, but there are a LOT of neutrinos: about 0.05 solar masses of them.
Furthermore, they are the first things that escape from the core (apart from gravitational waves) since they move at near-lightspeed and have very little chance of interacting with the envelope of the star. The big flashy special effects are driven by the shockwave from the core reaching the surface, and that takes hours. So if you were at the distance of Jupiter, you would have time to die from neutrino effects before the blast hit you.
Admittedly, Betelgeuse is somewhat further away than Jupiter, and the only neutrino effects are likely to be a lot of very excited astrophysicists. But both Jupiter and Betelgeuse are much closer than 99.9999999999999999999% of the Universe, and much further away than everyone you've ever met, so the distance scales aren't that different.
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The neutrinos from a core collapse supernova would be lethal to humans at the distance of Jupiter
I'm not going to put an obnoxious citation needed tag here, but damned if I wasn't tempted. That's the first I've ever heard of neutrinos being deadly to anything at all. I'm understandably sceptical.
I don't suppose you remember the source for that? I'd be curious to see the details.
That being said, the distance between the sun and Jupiter is on the order of tens of light minutes, whereas here to Betelgeuse is hundreds of light years. They may both be, as you say, close to us in astronomical terms, but
Re:New doomsday scenario? (Score:5, Interesting)
That's the first I've ever heard of neutrinos being deadly to anything at all. I'm understandably sceptical.
The neutrino emissions from a supernova would be lethal to humans out to a light year or so. Really. Cross-section is ~10e-40 cm^2, average energy is 1 MeV-ish. You work it out.
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The neutrino emissions from a supernova would be lethal to humans out to a light year or so. Really. Cross-section is ~10e-40 cm^2, average energy is 1 MeV-ish. You work it out.
Then it's a good thing the only star less than a light year or so away from us won't go supernova...
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Really. Cross-section is ~10e-40 cm^2, average energy is 1 MeV-ish. You work it out.
42!!
Re:New doomsday scenario? (Score:5, Informative)
And how these neutrinos are supposed have an ionizing effect, exactly?
Charged current interaction, which is one aspect of the weak nuclear force. If you think about it, electrons must feel the week force, otherwise beta decay wouldn't happen.
Most neutrino detectors use see solar neutrinos this way: Cherenkov light from electrons kicked out by the charged current interaction. (The Sudbury Neutrino Observatory, in contrast, was also sensitive to the neutral current interaction, which is what made it possible to determine that neutrinos have mass.)
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Cross-section is ~10e-40 cm^2, average energy is 1 MeV-ish. You work it out.
I just finished my third drink of the evening. I don't think I can work it out anymore.
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I was going to reply with "work it out", but I see someone beat me to it. He even provided the necessary numbers, available on wikipedia.
Of course, if you're far enough away to survive all the other particles, the neutrinos aren't going to bother you, but you're right, it's interesting to know that neutrinos could kill you. It gives you something of sense of the scale of a supernova. It's even more satisfying to be able to work it out.
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It gives you something of sense of the scale of a supernova.
Point taken. I suppose I didn't consider the sheer quantity of statistically insignificant interactions.
That being said, I'd still like to see something a little more substantive on the subject than back of the envelope calculations (and that includes my own). It isn't that I doubt the math for the values given so much as I doubt the question of neutrino lethality is simple enough to answer that easily.
I'm aware of neutrino induced fission as a means of interaction, and the prospect of mass fissioning of
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What would you like? An experiment?
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So exactly how would they kill you? Would it burn you or cook you or make you sick or what?
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You'd get radiation poisoning and die. If you were far enough away your hair would fall out and your intestines would start to disintegrate, then you'd die. If you were closer you'd get cooked like someone at Hiroshima. Even closer and you'd be vaporized. Or atomized, really.
Once you make up for the difference in interaction rates, neutrino radiation would have much the same effect on a person as x-rays or gamma rays.
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Thank you, that was exactly the sort of thing I wanted to find :-)
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Admittedly, Betelgeuse is somewhat further away than Jupiter
And if it weren't, we'd be in serious trouble anyway, as it's radius is around 1,000 solar radii == about 47AU == about 4 times the maximum distance between Earth and Jupiter.
Re:New doomsday scenario? (Score:4, Insightful)
The neutrinos from a core collapse supernova would be lethal to humans at the distance of Jupiter.
I think if you're that close to a supernova, you've got much, much bigger problems than neutrinos.
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The neutrinos get a head start of several hours. If you are close enough they'll hit you first.
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Admittedly, Betelgeuse is somewhat further away than Jupiter, and the only neutrino effects are likely to be a lot of very excited astrophysicists.
So... what is the excitation energy of an astrophysicist and how do they manage to couple so strongly with neutrinos?
I suppose the leading theory might be to have them somehow emanate a variant Weak Force, which would make them be not really of this universe. Going by the few I've met - who were tending to be at least not of this world - the evidence seems to be stacking up...
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Re:New doomsday scenario? (Score:4, Informative)
The neutrinos [wikipedia.org] will do no such thing.
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The neutrinos [wikipedia.org] will do no such thing.
Lets be thankful that the ozone layer would get a well needed boost, considering what we have done to it. And the auroras would be fantastic, once particles start to arrive.
Re:New doomsday scenario? (Score:5, Funny)
More of note.
If it's 640 light years away, then it probably went boom 640 years ago.
Which only makes sense, since after all, 640 years should be enough for anyone.
GrpA
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"There is a galactic market for maybe five supernovae."
"Your supernova is powerful and well-formed, but in order to earn anything better than a C from me, it must be feasible"
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640 light years should be enough for anyone
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640 lightyears away you say? (Score:2, Redundant)
640 light years? That ought to be enough for anybody.
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It's 640 light years away (give or take). Would the neutrinos affect us at all? Is this another doomsday scenario? I would imagine that it'd be hellishly bright in the night sky. What does science say about it? I'm rusty on my astronomy, but it'd be awesome to see.
meh - 640 light years ought to be enough for anyone
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Would be bright, not a doomsday scenario:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse#Betelgeuse.27s_fate
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It's 640 light years away (give or take). Would the neutrinos affect us at all?
I doubt it. 640 light years should be enough for anybody.